This looks like Meetup or Facebook events. I'm not entirely sure what the need for another platform is and won't use it myself to organize my events as others have larger user bases, but the website looks quirky and fun.
This is [Meetup](https://www.meetup.com). Meetup has obviously not aged well, but this is mostly due to changes in ownership and leadership. It’s original mission of “a Meetup Everywhere about Most Everything” is pretty much exactly what The Offline Club seems to be seeking.
I think they’ll find a lot of the same challenges:
1. Finding space to have events
2. Ensuring that people who said “I’m going” actually end up going.
3. Bootstrapping groups such that when I stumble upon The Offline Club, I can signup for something relevant to me, happening a short time from now.
4. Keeping organizers willing to continue hosting events
5. Keeping away organizers who see it as lead gen for their sales job
Basically, good luck!
Edit: On second look, this is different than Meetup in that it’s not centered around a specific topic … except for being “offline” together, which obviously could create other opportunities for hobbies, etc.
Is there any reasonable non-commercial replacement for Meetup on the horizon?
I used to go to some hiking and bike riding meetups years ago, and those types obviously don't end up as sales events, but they still had issues with the weird Meetup system where people "had to" take charge of groups and pay somehow etc.
I remember that every time I had taken part in one of those groups, the next time it was somehow some slightly different variation of the same group under a different name that I had to find using their search. All just for the internal workings and politics of the Meetup system.
We run meetups for systems programmers [0] and have mostly addressed these challenges.
> 1. Finding space to have events
Talk to a coffee shop owner. Promise them your group will (reliably) order drinks or snacks. In exchange, every month we get an area "cordoned off" just for us.
> 2. Ensuring that people who said “I’m going” actually end up going.
Aside from sending a general newsletter, I personally ping and catch up with individuals. This is a lot of work. It pays off when they evangelize your event on your behalf.
> 3. Bootstrapping groups such that when I stumble upon The Offline Club, I can signup for something relevant to me, happening a short time from now.
See #2
> 4. Keeping organizers willing to continue hosting events
That's tougher. However, if the event is specialized/niche/unique enough, the organizers will be conferred high social status by the community.
> 5. Keeping away organizers who see it as lead gen for their sales job
Mmm, could we define sales job? On the business front, the meetups are used to promote our (indie) conferences. The meetup groups don't mind when I ask them to buy a ticket. They can just say no and we're not pushy about it.
> Mmm, could we define sales job? On the business front, the meetups are used to promote our (indie) conferences. The meetup groups don't mind when I ask them to buy a ticket. They can just say no and we're not pushy about it.
Not the OP but: I encountered this often. Recruiters or startup founders would start attending mainly to pitch their company or try to recruit.
It was the same cycle every time with every group I went to: Starts out small and useful, as it gets more popular it becomes a target for the "hustle culture" crowd.
Yes. The group I used to run also addressed a lot of these challenges. However, this isn’t so easy for everyone who runs meetups.
Part of the promise of WeWork buying Meetup, for instance, was “oh look! We have access to tons of real estate to house Meetups in.” A large amount of organizer support was providing ideas for places to have events.
I worked at Meetup for a couple of years. There were often Meetup groups that started up in the guise of $GENERIC get together, that ended up actually being literal lead gen for a pyramid scheme. This wasn’t likely a tech meetup thing, but perhaps a knitting circle, or whatever.
Yeah, agree that none of the issues are problems without solutions.
The issue is vulture capitalism and misalignment of incentives for platform vs host vs participants. I've been a part of groups that solved these and grew to 8000-member communities. It's simply that meetup wasn't actually interested to solve the challenges because they needed to extract wealth and pass extraction down the chain (no incentivise to protect underlying communities as a commons)
There's a meetup dynamic which has previously been explained to me, it goes something like this: someone starts a meetup where a mix of cool people and weirdos show up, the events continue until the ratio gets really bad which causes the cool people to splinter off into their own private group. I wonder if this product is able to escape that pattern.
I used to go to a Ruby meetup and it was pretty much just like this. There was a core group who went every time and then you'd get some real whackos showing up. Often who didn't even know what the group was about, just that there was something on tonight.
I'm not sure a product is even able to solve this. A product needs to maximise engagement, turn a profit, etc. But there isn't really any money to be made here. A local community isn't going to want to pay a fee to some 3rd party so they can arrange to meet up at the pub. The best solution here is just a IM group chat. Only problem is it isn't very discoverable to new members, but to some extent being hard to find is a feature itself.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If something takes a bit of work to join, it'll naturally attract only people who are invested in improving the community. I imagine new communities that get popular need cool people to get it started and keep the fire going. Not many people will know about it and it may be small, so there's a nice natural filter where only dedicated members self-select into the community.
Once it grows and offers more value, it becomes more visible and it spreads in awareness, so more people know about it, but then it's just as likely to attract low-quality members who don't really care about maintaining it. It's much easier to take for granted because it's just there and doesn't take effort to keep going, at least to a new member.
I think this is one of the things that I dislike about meetup.com. It's too easy to sign up for something and then not show up. It's a third party service, so you don't ever need to interact with a human being. If someone invited you to an event, it's a bit harder to bail on it, but if you just clicked a button to say you were going to go, it doesn't feel so bad to never show up. I think communities need an effort to maintain and a "member" putting in the work makes them more attached to the community. Showing up regularly is a kind of ritual, and over time, you become a true member of the community.
One thing I’ve noticed with Meetup is that a lot of events went virtual during Covid, then never went back. When I go there it seems like so many things near me are simply Zoom meetings, which I have no interest in.
I understand needing that during that period, but it seems like if they want to get back to the real purpose of the site, they need to do away with that option.
I think many groups effectively died during that period - but were just able to limp along a bit longer as a virtual meet rather than physical. Once your meetup is sub 30 attendees (attendees who actually attend - so ~45 RSVPs) you lose critical mass and everything from getting people to talk to finding a space to meet becomes very difficult.
> 2. Ensuring that people who said “I’m going” actually end up going.
Super interested in how people solved/compensated for this problem. The approach I've found works best is to make the event, basically, "open-doors" (i.e., the RSVP is not actually required, chance attendees always welcome), and hope for the best. Someone mentioned personally messaging people but, well, that's a lot of work for something not my dayjob.
Been hosting a weekly meet-up for over a year now and there are some factors which I think contribute to this problem:
A. We set-up an auto-recurring meet-up event. People sign-up for the events happening within the next month; hence they fill-up quickly. However, as more people discover the event, they find them already fully-booked. These people end up booking for the waitlist and/or the next events that are not yet full (i.e., event slots more than one month ahead). This creates a negative feedback loop. (This January, I had sign-ups for up to May!)
B. With a long waitlist from [A] people who signed-up would tend to cancel last-minute. At that point the people in the waitlist have made other plans already and end up a no-show or just canceling too, sometimes after they already got a slot. This, again, creates a negative feedback loop.
This year, aside from open-doors policy, I've started overbooking the event on purpose to combat [B]. It's sort of effective though every week I'm playing the airline overbooking problem. This calendar year, I've only been "overbooked" once. I'm also, naturally, wary of first-timers who might be a nuisance (e.g. but not only: parent's [5] but s/organizers/attendees/) but so far I wouldn't really say that has been a problem. Maybe the type of our meet-up organically filters for it (we're an art hobby group and if you can't sit still just trying to draw for 2h, or are not interested at all in learning about art and drawing, you will have a very awkward 2h).
I ran a bunch of events over a decade or so (in Australia), and found:
1. If the event was free, I would get roughly 66% attendance. Adding sponsored beer/pizza increased this, but only to about 75%.
2. If the event was paid, I got roughly 95% attendance, but a much lower audience, depending on price (and if the price was high enough, I'd get requests for refunds from people who couldn't attend).
If the venue space was limited, I'd overbook based on the above and it usually worked out OK.
It definitely has things in common with meetup.com. But it looks meaningfully distinct to me because the appear to specifically have some kind of strong preference against connected devices. Honestly, I've been wishing for things in this vein recently because of the feeling that our world is growing too superficial with our faces buried in phones and being fed by addictive algorithms.
That being said, I think you're right about some of the challenges that an effort like this will encounter.
This reminded me of the Stoop Coffee post from awhile back. Many are yearning for these analog connections and trying to crack the code for making it deliberate, inviting and low barrier to entry. I don’t think it’s just a reaction to everyone being online — books like Bowling Alone in the late 90s were calling out other trends leading to disconnect.
These places already exist, they're your local game stores! Show up, play games with other people. If you like competition most host official tournaments for various TCG's and table top war-games. These tournaments usually forbid devices while playing, since they can be used to gain unfair advantage, so you are forced to be offline by default. (Plus it's considered rude to be on your phone during a match.)
I'm not a huge table top gamer or anything and have checked out my local shop to play with others. It was definitely fun, but I'll admit that it wasn't for me and I stopped going. If you are into board games, you definitely should check them out though. I just found it required more interest in board games than I was willing to partake in when I really just wanted a third space to hang out.
On the flip side, I was into swing dancing for a few years and I found that was a great place to socialize. Of course, like the board games thing, it's not for everyone. That said, I did find it was a bit easier to just show up there and just socialize. Once you're a regular, you don't necessarily have to be constantly dancing or anything. (I did when I got started, though.) You can just hang out and have a good conversation with another regular, and often there's a bar where you can chill with a drink. It's definitely intimidating to go dancing as a newb, though, so I recommend going some place that offers a weekly class. That's a great way to meet other newbies and go to the dance together.
The local shop scene never appealed, but big love for my gaming crew. Been playing games with the same lads for twenty years, and we've all learned how to wash!
I attended one of their events a few months ago in Amsterdam. You have to hand in your phone when entering the venue and get it back afterwards. I spent around 2 hours reading my kindle in silence. It was really nice being in a space where everyone had put their phones away, but paying 10 euros for the privilege of doing so means I'm unlikely to turn up regularly when I could just go to a cafe and put my phone on airplane mode for free.
Maybe it's just part of the reflexes I've developed in recent years as an American, but there is never going to be a day where I hand my phone off to anyone for any reason. Not because I am addicted to it, but because there is simply too much PII and sensitive content to protect on it.
Why not just trust people to keep their phone in their pocket when out at a social gathering that was formed for the expressed purpose of disconnecting? Wouldn't that also help the person break the habit of checking their phone frequently while also knowing it is still there?
A few years ago, I realized my screentime was getting out of control. Being a person who has a history of substance abuse (and recovery), I recognize addiction when I see it. So, I took some measure to minimize my use.
1. Remove all non-essential apps. Games, news apps, social media...basically anything that was not helping me get something done. I ended up left with email (work) any my banking or payment apps, while all the "fun" apps got installed on my tablet that stays at home.
2. Use a minimalist app launcher overlay. It's actually crazy how the removal of graphical icons helps, turning everything in lists of words, making you have to think about why you just unlocked your phone and find the specific app instead of something like "oh, there's Discord, I might as well check that while I have my phone open. These launchers also tend to have built-in blockers for notifications.
It seems like these were two simple things, but they were not. Especially at first. For about the first month, I found myself pulling my phone out for no reason, since the trigger that was making me do it (boredom, anxiety, FOMO) was still there, but I learned to cope with them and eventually they faded.
I would not have accomplished that by handing my phone off to other people, which actually makes me more paranoid about what's going given modern privacy concerns. In the US, we even campaign against handing your phone over to law enforcement since the implicit trust has been broken one too many times. Do Europeans share this anxiety?
Very valid points regarding handing your phone to someone. I too don't think the whole lockbox thing is a good solution.
There are places/"events" in Europe where people keep their phones off seemingly without problem (ex. going to the church). But they still have their phones so if there's an emergency, one can just go out the building and pick up that call.
The problem with events is lots of times, people don't go to them to knit together, they go there for networking, so then getting someone's LinkedIn/Instagram/Etsy/... is (unfortunately) the end goal. If we could change that, I think most people wouldn't even need to take their phones out. Perhaps an after-meetup list of all attendees with their LinkedIn/socials? But then again we're at the privacy concerns.
Also a good point. I'm old enough to remember when a gathering for the purposes of networking was really about collecting business cards. It seems like they end up in the trash more than ever, these days (which makes it tough for me to show people what I do since I'm anti-social media and wear many hats, but that's another blog post).
In all honesty, though, I'm the type of person who would actually show up to knit. Networking tends to be an annoyance, to me, but I also forgive it since I understand that it can be important and lead to some great opportunities. When I meet people, I usually don't ask about what they do for work. That will come out in the natural course of conversation if the person enjoys what they do. If not, then I'd rather talk about something else anyway. Typically, I like to start with people's hobbies and interests. In my experience, you get a deeper connection that way.
Perhaps doing away with the "networking" mindset is the key? We have to find a way to make the focus on the experience, as opposed to forced meetings/relationship, which work mixers tend to feel like.
Using a real example from my own life, I went to a basket weaving class once. It was fun, but not something I wanted to pursue as a regular hobby. However, while there, I met the spouse of a practicing blacksmith and found out there is a network of "folk craft" people in my state doing really interesting things in terms of keeping the old traditional methods alive but incorporating modern materials. That saw me attending some blacksmithing classes and forging a few of my own knives.
It was all about the experience I was having with the people around me, through which relationships and talk of our careers naturally developed, leaving me to want to continue to keep in touch them.
> Why not just trust people to keep their phone in their pocket when out at a social gathering that was formed for the expressed purpose of disconnecting?
Ever meet people that believe, to their core, that they are the exception? There's always at least 1 in every crowd. Can't relax properly when you're anticipating a selfish prick will reveal themselves at any moment.
I think there is a target market for this, and it might seem silly to anyone outside of that market, but it shouldn't.
If you're a screen addict living in these cities, paying an entry fee could be reassuring because you know that you're supposed to be there. The same goes for having a non-skills based activity, because you can't screw it up.
Compare that to a free and/or skills-based gathering[1], where you end up paying with social capital (which you don't currently have), and staying home with the screen becomes all that more enticing.
1: I help run a monthly pinball tournament locally, and we've taken deliberate steps to favor socialization over competition, which has been wildly successful, but there are still those for whom the skills-based activity is too much. I feel the same about dancing.
Makes me think about starting a non-profit club at a physical location. Some comfortable chairs etc. Just a quiet place to go read or be in the proximity of others. Perhaps with rules about what’s allowed:
In times past, we used to have things like clubs and user groups. For the most part, they held open meetings. Anyone could attend without commitment. These meeting not only served the interests of members and the community, but they also served to engage people who would become members. Members paid dues. Dues paid the bills.
If it was a community based organization (ham radio, open source developers, etc.) and the membership worked out outreach, you could usually find someone who would provide a meeting space. Perhaps it would be at a local business. Perhaps it would be at a local university. Perhaps it would be at a local community centre or library. Even if you did have to pay for the space, there were typically a lot of inexpensive spaces to rent for an hour or two. But the key word is community based. There was always a surplus of space if you knew where to look and who to ask. Some people were willing to donate it and others were willing to let it be used for a nominal fee.
That seemed to change 10 or 20 years ago. I'm not quite sure as to the reason why.
Original poster here. I have no affiliation to it. Just found it, guessed it will spark some interest here, which it did. I thought about going to one event in Berlin, but it's in a hipster area.
I used to think I didn't like clubs and societies. Then I joined a local sailing club, and I love it. Lots of nice people, all with a shared interest, but many other non-shared interests that make it even more interesting!
I would definitely recommend looking for clubs like this.
So, Meetup without the baggage (i.e. WeWork)? I'll take it. I made quite a few friends on Meetup back in the day attending and running group events in NYC.
I got excited when I saw the title, thinking it was local-first software advocacy. But I guess if local-first software advocacy gets me excited, then maybe I should turn off the screen and touch some grass.
There was a dream that was having a social life. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish, it was so fragile.
-- Marcus Aurelius
Relationships and things that matter are spontaneous. When you try to optimize them into calendars, checklists & databases -- they become lame and fall apart.
It's half the reason people aren't social. They try so hard to "schedule a meetup" and the meetup becomes work so people stop hanging out.
You're just supposed to show up at someone's house and do shit.
You don't make friends by agenda. You have cool experiences , build trust and develop a bond.
You're thinking about the wrong stage of friendmaking.
The pitch here is for getting people over the first hurdle, which is being at the same place at the same time as other people, and to some extent, the second hurdle, which is striking up a conversation (as anyone who would attend something like this is, by their presence, signalling an interest in at least casual interaction with the other participants). This adds people to your "acquaintances" list.
The next step is forming setting specific friendships. Your gym buddies, your work friends, etc. Then you need to actually invite some of those friends to other settings, until your friendship isn't entirely predicated on the particular setting. Then you need to spend enough time with that person to maintain the friendship.
For most people, the big hurdles are the "being present", "striking up a conversation", and "converting setting specific friendships into general friendships" steps. Everything else is pretty straightforward.
Casually dropping by someone's place unscheduled is typically reserved for pretty close friends. That's not what this service is targeting.
Depending on the culture, it's significantly easier to actually make friends at "sanctioned" events, such as whatever this offline club is, or Meetups. Sometimes just a nametag is all it takes to completely shift interpersonal dynamics for a culture.
I notice that the "just talk to strangers in public" crowd really like to apply this to unwilling participants, as if everyone else is "just too scared" or something. I cringe so hard when I see e.g. Americans try to bully through "cultural baggage" in Japan to talk to strangers. "See, not so hard, no need to be so uptight!" Not realizing they're causing incredible discomfort to whoever they're trying to make friends with, misinterpreting desperate politeness for some kind of finally-unlocked freedom of expression. It's not "oh thank god this friendly foreigner started talking to me, my culture is so stuffy and oppressive and boring, now I can make a great friend!" it's "why is this person talking to me, are they crazy, I don't know them, what do they want, how can I get out of this situation??" Whereas in a meetup, everyone there is in the mindset that they want to meet and talk to strangers, and maybe make a couple new friends.
There's a few furry events in my city which are basically "This pub, this day of the week every week". You don't bother working out who is going, how it fits in to everyones schedule. You just go if you feel like doing something that night and there will be people there.
I've got a few friends who I don't even have the contact details for, If I want to talk to them I just go out to whatever the current event or party is and they will probably be there.
They usually aren't that structured and for some of them they don't really even have someone who runs the event, it's just self perpetuating that people know other people will be at this venue this day. So any kind of rules would just be the rules of the pub or venue itself.
I see the value of these services, but there's definitely an impersonal and formal nature to them, which takes away some of the humanity of just meeting people IRL and deciding to spend time. However, it feels like there are fewer third spaces people can spend time at without having to spend money where they can just randomly meet new people and see them regularly. Making new friends requires regularly being in the same space with them over time so you can build familiarity. Just meeting someone one time isn't enough for a lot of us to just decide "let's be friends and spend time together". If this service encourages people to hang out regularly, I think it's a step in the right direction.
People are busy and can’t accommodate random pop-ins all the time. That is also a nightmare for certain personality types, and is often considered quite rude.
My dad is in his early 70s and still regularly gets together with people from all eras of his life, going all the way back to high school. Old neighbors, former co-workers and employees, and various others he met along the way. Unlike a lot of retirees, he has a rich social life and a packed calendar with dozens of close friends. This was all due to him regularly reaching out and scheduling a meal or activity, or just time to chat, over the course of his life. Friendships don’t just spontaneously last decades, they take effort, especially as people go through different stages of life.
that's part of the issue I'm raising. people pretending to be as busy as a surgeon. Even parents / grandparents are scheduling family visits with a calendar despite watching TV and golfing most of the time.
It's the corporatization of life that I'm protesting and we all participate. A total buzzkill
It’s not corporatizing, it’s simply respecting people’s time. Maybe I am just watching TV, but I’m doing that after a long day at work and don’t want an impromptu guest I need to entertain. Nor do I keep my house in a state to have company at the drop of a hat.
Drop ins were cool in college, but as an adult, it’s not so fun.
While I generally agree with this sentiment - it's pretty hard to maintain friendships and relationships where both parties don't talk because they're both waiting to be spontaneous.
I don't "book/plan" things with friends, but it makes a massive difference to consistently reach out and nurture friendships.
The way you're describing meeting people seems fun, but half the time folks are busy with life or other stuff to be spontaneous.
I work from home, live far away from family, and sometimes the only social interaction I get each day is getting marketing text messages from HelloFresh. I then can take the time to go speak to my local barista for ~30 seconds and buy a drink.
Too much of life is already tied to a screen. I spent the last few years sitting in front of "offline" computers seeking fun and relaxation. I got all kinds of cool stuff for Atari 2600, bought a Commander X16, even learned how to program for both. Ultimately, it just feels like everything else in life now, but harder.
Anyone interested in buying a bunch of retro stuff? :)
This looks like Meetup or Facebook events. I'm not entirely sure what the need for another platform is and won't use it myself to organize my events as others have larger user bases, but the website looks quirky and fun.
This is [Meetup](https://www.meetup.com). Meetup has obviously not aged well, but this is mostly due to changes in ownership and leadership. It’s original mission of “a Meetup Everywhere about Most Everything” is pretty much exactly what The Offline Club seems to be seeking.
I think they’ll find a lot of the same challenges:
Basically, good luck!Edit: On second look, this is different than Meetup in that it’s not centered around a specific topic … except for being “offline” together, which obviously could create other opportunities for hobbies, etc.
Is there any reasonable non-commercial replacement for Meetup on the horizon?
I used to go to some hiking and bike riding meetups years ago, and those types obviously don't end up as sales events, but they still had issues with the weird Meetup system where people "had to" take charge of groups and pay somehow etc.
I remember that every time I had taken part in one of those groups, the next time it was somehow some slightly different variation of the same group under a different name that I had to find using their search. All just for the internal workings and politics of the Meetup system.
We run meetups for systems programmers [0] and have mostly addressed these challenges.
> 1. Finding space to have events
Talk to a coffee shop owner. Promise them your group will (reliably) order drinks or snacks. In exchange, every month we get an area "cordoned off" just for us.
> 2. Ensuring that people who said “I’m going” actually end up going.
Aside from sending a general newsletter, I personally ping and catch up with individuals. This is a lot of work. It pays off when they evangelize your event on your behalf.
> 3. Bootstrapping groups such that when I stumble upon The Offline Club, I can signup for something relevant to me, happening a short time from now.
See #2
> 4. Keeping organizers willing to continue hosting events
That's tougher. However, if the event is specialized/niche/unique enough, the organizers will be conferred high social status by the community.
> 5. Keeping away organizers who see it as lead gen for their sales job
Mmm, could we define sales job? On the business front, the meetups are used to promote our (indie) conferences. The meetup groups don't mind when I ask them to buy a ticket. They can just say no and we're not pushy about it.
[0] https://handmadecities.com/meetups
> Mmm, could we define sales job? On the business front, the meetups are used to promote our (indie) conferences. The meetup groups don't mind when I ask them to buy a ticket. They can just say no and we're not pushy about it.
Not the OP but: I encountered this often. Recruiters or startup founders would start attending mainly to pitch their company or try to recruit.
It was the same cycle every time with every group I went to: Starts out small and useful, as it gets more popular it becomes a target for the "hustle culture" crowd.
Yes. The group I used to run also addressed a lot of these challenges. However, this isn’t so easy for everyone who runs meetups.
Part of the promise of WeWork buying Meetup, for instance, was “oh look! We have access to tons of real estate to house Meetups in.” A large amount of organizer support was providing ideas for places to have events.
I worked at Meetup for a couple of years. There were often Meetup groups that started up in the guise of $GENERIC get together, that ended up actually being literal lead gen for a pyramid scheme. This wasn’t likely a tech meetup thing, but perhaps a knitting circle, or whatever.
> started up in the guise of $GENERIC get together, that ended up actually being literal lead gen for a pyramid scheme
Ah yes yes. That's horrifying.
Yeah, agree that none of the issues are problems without solutions.
The issue is vulture capitalism and misalignment of incentives for platform vs host vs participants. I've been a part of groups that solved these and grew to 8000-member communities. It's simply that meetup wasn't actually interested to solve the challenges because they needed to extract wealth and pass extraction down the chain (no incentivise to protect underlying communities as a commons)
There's a meetup dynamic which has previously been explained to me, it goes something like this: someone starts a meetup where a mix of cool people and weirdos show up, the events continue until the ratio gets really bad which causes the cool people to splinter off into their own private group. I wonder if this product is able to escape that pattern.
I used to go to a Ruby meetup and it was pretty much just like this. There was a core group who went every time and then you'd get some real whackos showing up. Often who didn't even know what the group was about, just that there was something on tonight.
I'm not sure a product is even able to solve this. A product needs to maximise engagement, turn a profit, etc. But there isn't really any money to be made here. A local community isn't going to want to pay a fee to some 3rd party so they can arrange to meet up at the pub. The best solution here is just a IM group chat. Only problem is it isn't very discoverable to new members, but to some extent being hard to find is a feature itself.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If something takes a bit of work to join, it'll naturally attract only people who are invested in improving the community. I imagine new communities that get popular need cool people to get it started and keep the fire going. Not many people will know about it and it may be small, so there's a nice natural filter where only dedicated members self-select into the community.
Once it grows and offers more value, it becomes more visible and it spreads in awareness, so more people know about it, but then it's just as likely to attract low-quality members who don't really care about maintaining it. It's much easier to take for granted because it's just there and doesn't take effort to keep going, at least to a new member.
I think this is one of the things that I dislike about meetup.com. It's too easy to sign up for something and then not show up. It's a third party service, so you don't ever need to interact with a human being. If someone invited you to an event, it's a bit harder to bail on it, but if you just clicked a button to say you were going to go, it doesn't feel so bad to never show up. I think communities need an effort to maintain and a "member" putting in the work makes them more attached to the community. Showing up regularly is a kind of ritual, and over time, you become a true member of the community.
"Geeks, MOPs and Psychopaths"¹ is a good article about this, most importantly because it gives a grippy name to the phenomenon.
¹https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths
One thing I’ve noticed with Meetup is that a lot of events went virtual during Covid, then never went back. When I go there it seems like so many things near me are simply Zoom meetings, which I have no interest in.
I understand needing that during that period, but it seems like if they want to get back to the real purpose of the site, they need to do away with that option.
RE: Meetup.
I think many groups effectively died during that period - but were just able to limp along a bit longer as a virtual meet rather than physical. Once your meetup is sub 30 attendees (attendees who actually attend - so ~45 RSVPs) you lose critical mass and everything from getting people to talk to finding a space to meet becomes very difficult.
> 2. Ensuring that people who said “I’m going” actually end up going.
Super interested in how people solved/compensated for this problem. The approach I've found works best is to make the event, basically, "open-doors" (i.e., the RSVP is not actually required, chance attendees always welcome), and hope for the best. Someone mentioned personally messaging people but, well, that's a lot of work for something not my dayjob.
Been hosting a weekly meet-up for over a year now and there are some factors which I think contribute to this problem:
A. We set-up an auto-recurring meet-up event. People sign-up for the events happening within the next month; hence they fill-up quickly. However, as more people discover the event, they find them already fully-booked. These people end up booking for the waitlist and/or the next events that are not yet full (i.e., event slots more than one month ahead). This creates a negative feedback loop. (This January, I had sign-ups for up to May!)
B. With a long waitlist from [A] people who signed-up would tend to cancel last-minute. At that point the people in the waitlist have made other plans already and end up a no-show or just canceling too, sometimes after they already got a slot. This, again, creates a negative feedback loop.
This year, aside from open-doors policy, I've started overbooking the event on purpose to combat [B]. It's sort of effective though every week I'm playing the airline overbooking problem. This calendar year, I've only been "overbooked" once. I'm also, naturally, wary of first-timers who might be a nuisance (e.g. but not only: parent's [5] but s/organizers/attendees/) but so far I wouldn't really say that has been a problem. Maybe the type of our meet-up organically filters for it (we're an art hobby group and if you can't sit still just trying to draw for 2h, or are not interested at all in learning about art and drawing, you will have a very awkward 2h).
I ran a bunch of events over a decade or so (in Australia), and found:
1. If the event was free, I would get roughly 66% attendance. Adding sponsored beer/pizza increased this, but only to about 75%.
2. If the event was paid, I got roughly 95% attendance, but a much lower audience, depending on price (and if the price was high enough, I'd get requests for refunds from people who couldn't attend).
If the venue space was limited, I'd overbook based on the above and it usually worked out OK.
It definitely has things in common with meetup.com. But it looks meaningfully distinct to me because the appear to specifically have some kind of strong preference against connected devices. Honestly, I've been wishing for things in this vein recently because of the feeling that our world is growing too superficial with our faces buried in phones and being fed by addictive algorithms.
That being said, I think you're right about some of the challenges that an effort like this will encounter.
This reminded me of the Stoop Coffee post from awhile back. Many are yearning for these analog connections and trying to crack the code for making it deliberate, inviting and low barrier to entry. I don’t think it’s just a reaction to everyone being online — books like Bowling Alone in the late 90s were calling out other trends leading to disconnect.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43473618
These places already exist, they're your local game stores! Show up, play games with other people. If you like competition most host official tournaments for various TCG's and table top war-games. These tournaments usually forbid devices while playing, since they can be used to gain unfair advantage, so you are forced to be offline by default. (Plus it's considered rude to be on your phone during a match.)
I'm not a huge table top gamer or anything and have checked out my local shop to play with others. It was definitely fun, but I'll admit that it wasn't for me and I stopped going. If you are into board games, you definitely should check them out though. I just found it required more interest in board games than I was willing to partake in when I really just wanted a third space to hang out.
On the flip side, I was into swing dancing for a few years and I found that was a great place to socialize. Of course, like the board games thing, it's not for everyone. That said, I did find it was a bit easier to just show up there and just socialize. Once you're a regular, you don't necessarily have to be constantly dancing or anything. (I did when I got started, though.) You can just hang out and have a good conversation with another regular, and often there's a bar where you can chill with a drink. It's definitely intimidating to go dancing as a newb, though, so I recommend going some place that offers a weekly class. That's a great way to meet other newbies and go to the dance together.
The problem is the weirdo problem someone else mentioned. You can only put up with so many stinky man children till you decide it's not worth going
The local shop scene never appealed, but big love for my gaming crew. Been playing games with the same lads for twenty years, and we've all learned how to wash!
I like it, but I find it ironic that it's just https://lu.ma/ embedded on a website.
The London page: https://lu.ma/embed/calendar/cal-8hcK7emYCS5LbFl/events?lt=l...
I attended one of their events a few months ago in Amsterdam. You have to hand in your phone when entering the venue and get it back afterwards. I spent around 2 hours reading my kindle in silence. It was really nice being in a space where everyone had put their phones away, but paying 10 euros for the privilege of doing so means I'm unlikely to turn up regularly when I could just go to a cafe and put my phone on airplane mode for free.
Maybe it's just part of the reflexes I've developed in recent years as an American, but there is never going to be a day where I hand my phone off to anyone for any reason. Not because I am addicted to it, but because there is simply too much PII and sensitive content to protect on it.
Why not just trust people to keep their phone in their pocket when out at a social gathering that was formed for the expressed purpose of disconnecting? Wouldn't that also help the person break the habit of checking their phone frequently while also knowing it is still there?
A few years ago, I realized my screentime was getting out of control. Being a person who has a history of substance abuse (and recovery), I recognize addiction when I see it. So, I took some measure to minimize my use.
1. Remove all non-essential apps. Games, news apps, social media...basically anything that was not helping me get something done. I ended up left with email (work) any my banking or payment apps, while all the "fun" apps got installed on my tablet that stays at home.
2. Use a minimalist app launcher overlay. It's actually crazy how the removal of graphical icons helps, turning everything in lists of words, making you have to think about why you just unlocked your phone and find the specific app instead of something like "oh, there's Discord, I might as well check that while I have my phone open. These launchers also tend to have built-in blockers for notifications.
It seems like these were two simple things, but they were not. Especially at first. For about the first month, I found myself pulling my phone out for no reason, since the trigger that was making me do it (boredom, anxiety, FOMO) was still there, but I learned to cope with them and eventually they faded.
I would not have accomplished that by handing my phone off to other people, which actually makes me more paranoid about what's going given modern privacy concerns. In the US, we even campaign against handing your phone over to law enforcement since the implicit trust has been broken one too many times. Do Europeans share this anxiety?
Very valid points regarding handing your phone to someone. I too don't think the whole lockbox thing is a good solution.
There are places/"events" in Europe where people keep their phones off seemingly without problem (ex. going to the church). But they still have their phones so if there's an emergency, one can just go out the building and pick up that call.
The problem with events is lots of times, people don't go to them to knit together, they go there for networking, so then getting someone's LinkedIn/Instagram/Etsy/... is (unfortunately) the end goal. If we could change that, I think most people wouldn't even need to take their phones out. Perhaps an after-meetup list of all attendees with their LinkedIn/socials? But then again we're at the privacy concerns.
Also a good point. I'm old enough to remember when a gathering for the purposes of networking was really about collecting business cards. It seems like they end up in the trash more than ever, these days (which makes it tough for me to show people what I do since I'm anti-social media and wear many hats, but that's another blog post).
In all honesty, though, I'm the type of person who would actually show up to knit. Networking tends to be an annoyance, to me, but I also forgive it since I understand that it can be important and lead to some great opportunities. When I meet people, I usually don't ask about what they do for work. That will come out in the natural course of conversation if the person enjoys what they do. If not, then I'd rather talk about something else anyway. Typically, I like to start with people's hobbies and interests. In my experience, you get a deeper connection that way.
Perhaps doing away with the "networking" mindset is the key? We have to find a way to make the focus on the experience, as opposed to forced meetings/relationship, which work mixers tend to feel like.
Using a real example from my own life, I went to a basket weaving class once. It was fun, but not something I wanted to pursue as a regular hobby. However, while there, I met the spouse of a practicing blacksmith and found out there is a network of "folk craft" people in my state doing really interesting things in terms of keeping the old traditional methods alive but incorporating modern materials. That saw me attending some blacksmithing classes and forging a few of my own knives.
It was all about the experience I was having with the people around me, through which relationships and talk of our careers naturally developed, leaving me to want to continue to keep in touch them.
> Why not just trust people to keep their phone in their pocket when out at a social gathering that was formed for the expressed purpose of disconnecting?
Ever meet people that believe, to their core, that they are the exception? There's always at least 1 in every crowd. Can't relax properly when you're anticipating a selfish prick will reveal themselves at any moment.
Don't even bring your phone, feels even better.
I think there is a target market for this, and it might seem silly to anyone outside of that market, but it shouldn't.
If you're a screen addict living in these cities, paying an entry fee could be reassuring because you know that you're supposed to be there. The same goes for having a non-skills based activity, because you can't screw it up.
Compare that to a free and/or skills-based gathering[1], where you end up paying with social capital (which you don't currently have), and staying home with the screen becomes all that more enticing.
1: I help run a monthly pinball tournament locally, and we've taken deliberate steps to favor socialization over competition, which has been wildly successful, but there are still those for whom the skills-based activity is too much. I feel the same about dancing.
Makes me think about starting a non-profit club at a physical location. Some comfortable chairs etc. Just a quiet place to go read or be in the proximity of others. Perhaps with rules about what’s allowed:
- Members only (guests have to join)
- No disturbing others
- Quiet voices only
- No soliciting
- No electronic devices
Points 1 and 4 (and in some cases, Point 5) are a Private Members' Club: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_members%27_club
Points 2 and 3 are the Diogenes Club: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_Club
If you squint a little bit, what you are describing is a (public) library.
Looks fun. But £12.50 to read in silence? Am I missing something?
Well, if it's at a venue, they have to rent it out.
In times past, we used to have things like clubs and user groups. For the most part, they held open meetings. Anyone could attend without commitment. These meeting not only served the interests of members and the community, but they also served to engage people who would become members. Members paid dues. Dues paid the bills.
If it was a community based organization (ham radio, open source developers, etc.) and the membership worked out outreach, you could usually find someone who would provide a meeting space. Perhaps it would be at a local business. Perhaps it would be at a local university. Perhaps it would be at a local community centre or library. Even if you did have to pay for the space, there were typically a lot of inexpensive spaces to rent for an hour or two. But the key word is community based. There was always a surplus of space if you knew where to look and who to ask. Some people were willing to donate it and others were willing to let it be used for a nominal fee.
That seemed to change 10 or 20 years ago. I'm not quite sure as to the reason why.
How about just going to a public library? Perhaps with a friend or two as accountability partners for keeping off the phone?
There's one in copenhagen where you have to pay to have a picnic in a public park :D
How do they police that though? It's a public space so they can't just throw you out if you don't pay right?
Original poster here. I have no affiliation to it. Just found it, guessed it will spark some interest here, which it did. I thought about going to one event in Berlin, but it's in a hipster area.
I used to think I didn't like clubs and societies. Then I joined a local sailing club, and I love it. Lots of nice people, all with a shared interest, but many other non-shared interests that make it even more interesting!
I would definitely recommend looking for clubs like this.
So, Meetup without the baggage (i.e. WeWork)? I'll take it. I made quite a few friends on Meetup back in the day attending and running group events in NYC.
I got excited when I saw the title, thinking it was local-first software advocacy. But I guess if local-first software advocacy gets me excited, then maybe I should turn off the screen and touch some grass.
It's half the reason people aren't social. They try so hard to "schedule a meetup" and the meetup becomes work so people stop hanging out.
You're just supposed to show up at someone's house and do shit.
You don't make friends by agenda. You have cool experiences , build trust and develop a bond.
You're thinking about the wrong stage of friendmaking.
The pitch here is for getting people over the first hurdle, which is being at the same place at the same time as other people, and to some extent, the second hurdle, which is striking up a conversation (as anyone who would attend something like this is, by their presence, signalling an interest in at least casual interaction with the other participants). This adds people to your "acquaintances" list.
The next step is forming setting specific friendships. Your gym buddies, your work friends, etc. Then you need to actually invite some of those friends to other settings, until your friendship isn't entirely predicated on the particular setting. Then you need to spend enough time with that person to maintain the friendship.
For most people, the big hurdles are the "being present", "striking up a conversation", and "converting setting specific friendships into general friendships" steps. Everything else is pretty straightforward.
Casually dropping by someone's place unscheduled is typically reserved for pretty close friends. That's not what this service is targeting.
being out in public , at libraries coffee shops, parks & being accessible would be the analog of that phase.
Depending on the culture, it's significantly easier to actually make friends at "sanctioned" events, such as whatever this offline club is, or Meetups. Sometimes just a nametag is all it takes to completely shift interpersonal dynamics for a culture.
I notice that the "just talk to strangers in public" crowd really like to apply this to unwilling participants, as if everyone else is "just too scared" or something. I cringe so hard when I see e.g. Americans try to bully through "cultural baggage" in Japan to talk to strangers. "See, not so hard, no need to be so uptight!" Not realizing they're causing incredible discomfort to whoever they're trying to make friends with, misinterpreting desperate politeness for some kind of finally-unlocked freedom of expression. It's not "oh thank god this friendly foreigner started talking to me, my culture is so stuffy and oppressive and boring, now I can make a great friend!" it's "why is this person talking to me, are they crazy, I don't know them, what do they want, how can I get out of this situation??" Whereas in a meetup, everyone there is in the mindset that they want to meet and talk to strangers, and maybe make a couple new friends.
There's a few furry events in my city which are basically "This pub, this day of the week every week". You don't bother working out who is going, how it fits in to everyones schedule. You just go if you feel like doing something that night and there will be people there.
I've got a few friends who I don't even have the contact details for, If I want to talk to them I just go out to whatever the current event or party is and they will probably be there.
How are these events advertised so that people get to know about them?
I don’t suppose these events enforce any dress code?
They usually aren't that structured and for some of them they don't really even have someone who runs the event, it's just self perpetuating that people know other people will be at this venue this day. So any kind of rules would just be the rules of the pub or venue itself.
I see the value of these services, but there's definitely an impersonal and formal nature to them, which takes away some of the humanity of just meeting people IRL and deciding to spend time. However, it feels like there are fewer third spaces people can spend time at without having to spend money where they can just randomly meet new people and see them regularly. Making new friends requires regularly being in the same space with them over time so you can build familiarity. Just meeting someone one time isn't enough for a lot of us to just decide "let's be friends and spend time together". If this service encourages people to hang out regularly, I think it's a step in the right direction.
People are busy and can’t accommodate random pop-ins all the time. That is also a nightmare for certain personality types, and is often considered quite rude.
My dad is in his early 70s and still regularly gets together with people from all eras of his life, going all the way back to high school. Old neighbors, former co-workers and employees, and various others he met along the way. Unlike a lot of retirees, he has a rich social life and a packed calendar with dozens of close friends. This was all due to him regularly reaching out and scheduling a meal or activity, or just time to chat, over the course of his life. Friendships don’t just spontaneously last decades, they take effort, especially as people go through different stages of life.
that's part of the issue I'm raising. people pretending to be as busy as a surgeon. Even parents / grandparents are scheduling family visits with a calendar despite watching TV and golfing most of the time.
It's the corporatization of life that I'm protesting and we all participate. A total buzzkill
It’s not corporatizing, it’s simply respecting people’s time. Maybe I am just watching TV, but I’m doing that after a long day at work and don’t want an impromptu guest I need to entertain. Nor do I keep my house in a state to have company at the drop of a hat.
Drop ins were cool in college, but as an adult, it’s not so fun.
While I generally agree with this sentiment - it's pretty hard to maintain friendships and relationships where both parties don't talk because they're both waiting to be spontaneous.
I don't "book/plan" things with friends, but it makes a massive difference to consistently reach out and nurture friendships.
The way you're describing meeting people seems fun, but half the time folks are busy with life or other stuff to be spontaneous.
I work from home, live far away from family, and sometimes the only social interaction I get each day is getting marketing text messages from HelloFresh. I then can take the time to go speak to my local barista for ~30 seconds and buy a drink.
Where I grew up, just showing up at someone's house unannounced was a faux pas. Scheduling in advance was the only way to do shit.
I miss the days of going over to neighbors houses, ringing the doorbell and seeing if people wanted to do stuff.
That, or college just walking around dorms to find stuff going on.
Was it booked or was it “hey you home” and you head over?
A mixture of the two. "Cool if I come by later" or "wanna go to PLACE Friday".
I like how this is an online article
I was expecting some kind of joke that the website was not available
https://www.theludditeclub.org/
That looks cool. Bit US-based (and maybe a bit young) for me, but much respect, the world could do with more of this. The kids are alright.
Site is up.
bro i was hoping "the offline club" was a bunch of apps that just worked without logins radios rest APIs and all the other stuff that broke software
Too much of life is already tied to a screen. I spent the last few years sitting in front of "offline" computers seeking fun and relaxation. I got all kinds of cool stuff for Atari 2600, bought a Commander X16, even learned how to program for both. Ultimately, it just feels like everything else in life now, but harder.
Anyone interested in buying a bunch of retro stuff? :)
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Can you please not post snarky comments here? This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.